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  • September 10, 2016 at 10:06 am in reply to: Connecting 2d area and 1d Elements #10048
    markwood
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    From: “Markwood, David”
    To: “amgeda [via HEC-RAS Help]”
    Subject: RE: Connecting 2d area and 1d Elements
    Thread-Topic: Connecting 2d area and 1d Elements
    Thread-Index: AQHSA1wKzaobtVGxFUOmSsZLbbFy+KBnOZOAgAiP/4CAAnjQYA==
    Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2016 06:06:29 +0000
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    amgeda,
    These are very good questions, and I expect others on this blog can provide=
    more than provided here. But, hopefully this is helpful:

    1) Generally, yes, the HW distance to Upstream XS will be the RS of the=
    XS less the RS of the lateral structure. The RS of a lateral structure can=
    be a thousandth of a foot less than a XS RS. It’s worth noting that what i=
    s important here is a reasonable model of the actual flow overtopping the X=
    S and into the adjacent 2D flow area, therefore, the RAS-assumed connection=
    s to the cell faces of the 2D flow area are what counts, and these should b=
    e scrutinized and revised, as appropriate.

    2) The actual position of the transfer of flow leaving a XS edge and en=
    tering a 2D grid is more accurately modeled when the literal boundary or th=
    reshold between these two is placed accurately, based on topography. (i.e. =
    no gap, adjacent, boundaries are more ideal than having RAS align XS edges =
    and 2D mesh cell faces based on a rough/questionable geometry configuration=
    )

    3) For setting up model geometry, it would be awesome to have lateral s=
    tructures with more than 500 points. This is a (reasonable) limitation of t=
    he software.

    4) The equation selected is separate from the need to have 2D mesh cell=
    face elevations at or above lateral structure station-elevation data. Esse=
    ntially, yes. Copying the terrain profile into the lateral structure geomet=
    ry is a viable way to define that geometry, though you’ll inevitably be fac=
    ed with mesh cell elvations below connected lateral structure elevations, a=
    nd will have to resolve those errors (not a big deal, if you’re satisfied w=
    ith mesh and 1D configurations, but something you’ll have to reconcile).

    5) There is an option for georeferncing a known weir/lateral structure.=
    I believe a typical lateral structure is defined by the XS edges of a 1D r=
    each, which produces a ‘straight-line’ depiction of the lateral structure (=
    straight-line from a XS edge to the next). Clicking on this feature within =
    the Geometry Editor window provides the option for georeferencing, which is=
    an awesome feature not previously available.

    From: amgeda [via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:[email protected].=
    com]
    Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 4:46 AM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: Re: Connecting 2d area and 1d Elements

    Thanks for your reply I still have some questions:

    1. I have to define a RS where to put the LS. This RS is not at directly at=
    the position of a XS. The HW distance to Upstream XS will be the differenc=
    e between those two. Am I right?

    2. Is it better to define the position of LS within the 2D area or right at=
    the border to the 2D area or within a distance? Does it matter? I do not k=
    now the actual position of the transfer from a XS edge and 2D. I will be al=
    ways there where I define it?

    3. What if I want to define a continous LS, but the number of points should=
    not be over 500. There will be a gap between those two LS. Does it matter?

    4. I wonder about the difference of between “Normal 2D Equation Domain” and=
    “Use weir equation”. In both cases the LS should be higher than the (Minim=
    um?) Elevation of the Cell face? Do you just copy the terrain profile xyz d=
    ata for the weir profile xyz?

    5. How does it come that there is a difference between weir length and Cent=
    erline length. What do I change if I move the points of the centerline? The=
    centerline length?

    Thanks a lot for your help!

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    amgeda,

    These are very good questions,=
    and I expect others on this blog can provide more than provided here. But,=
    hopefully this is helpful:

     

    1) &nbs=
    p;  
    Generally, yes, the HW=
    distance to Upstream XS will be the RS of the XS less the RS of the latera=
    l structure. The RS of a lateral structure can be a thousandth
    of a foot less than a XS RS. It’s worth noting that what is importan=
    t here is a reasonable model of the actual flow overtopping the XS and into=
    the adjacent 2D flow area, therefore, the RAS-assumed connections to the c=
    ell faces of the 2D flow area are what
    counts, and these should be scrutinized and revised, as appropriate.<= /o:p>

    2) &nbs=
    p;  
    The actual position of=
    the transfer of flow leaving a XS edge and entering a 2D grid is more accu=
    rately modeled when the literal boundary or threshold
    between these two is placed accurately, based on topography. (i.e. no gap,=
    adjacent, boundaries are more ideal than having RAS align XS edges and 2D =
    mesh cell faces based on a rough/questionable geometry configuration)<= /o:p>

    3) &nbs=
    p;  
    For setting up model g=
    eometry, it would be awesome to have lateral structures with more than 500 =
    points. This is a (reasonable) limitation of the software.

    4) &nbs=
    p;  
    The equation selected =
    is separate from the need to have 2D mesh cell face elevations at or above =
    lateral structure station-elevation data. Essentially,
    yes. Copying the terrain profile into the lateral structure geometry is a =
    viable way to define that geometry, though you’ll inevitably be faced=
    with mesh cell elvations below connected lateral structure elevations, and=
    will have to resolve those errors (not
    a big deal, if you’re satisfied with mesh and 1D configurations, but=
    something you’ll have to reconcile).

    5) &nbs=
    p;  
    There is an option for=
    georeferncing a known weir/lateral structure. I believe a typical lateral =
    structure is defined by the XS edges of a 1D reach, which
    produces a ‘straight-line’ depiction of the lateral structure =
    (straight-line from a XS edge to the next). Clicking on this feature within=
    the Geometry Editor window provides the option for georeferencing, which i=
    s an awesome feature not previously available.

     

     

    From: amgeda [=
    via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:ml-node+[email protected]]

    Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 4:46 AM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: Re: Connecting 2d area and 1d Elements

     

    Thanks for your reply=
    I still have some questions:

    1. I have to define a RS where to put the LS. This RS is not at directly at=
    the position of a XS. The HW distance to Upstream XS will be the differenc=
    e between those two. Am I right?

    2. Is it better to define the position of LS within the 2D area or right at=
    the border to the 2D area or within a distance? Does it matter? I do not k=
    now the actual position of the transfer from a XS edge and 2D. I will be al=
    ways there where I define it?

    3. What if I want to define a continous LS, but the number of points should=
    not be over 500. There will be a gap between those two LS. Does it matter?

    4. I wonder about the difference of between "Normal 2D Equation Domain=
    " and "Use weir equation". In both cases the LS should be hi=
    gher than the (Minimum?) Elevation of the Cell face? Do you just copy the t=
    errain profile xyz data for the weir profile xyz?

    5. How does it come that there is a difference between weir length and Cent=
    erline length. What do I change if I move the points of the centerline? The=
    centerline length?

    Thanks a lot for your help!

    If you reply to this ema=
    il, your message will be added to the discussion below:

    http://hec-ras-help.1091112.n5.nabble.com/Connecting-2d-area-and-1d-Ele=
    ments-tp3010p3047.html

    ml-node+s109=
    [email protected]

    To unsubscribe from HEC-RAS Help,
    click here    .
    NAML


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    September 3, 2016 at 1:00 am in reply to: Terrain and project units #10072
    markwood
    Participant

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    From: “Markwood, David”
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    Subject: RE: Terrain and project units
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    Chris,
    The terrain model needs to have the spatial projection defined to, or needs=
    to be projected to, the RAS project spatial projection.
    Doing so will not affect the values of the terrain raster cells (i.e. the e=
    levations), so these will remain in meters.
    If US Customary units are desired throughout the RAS project, the elevation=
    s/values of the terrain raster with metric elevations should be converted t=
    o feet.

    From: RasL DazL [via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:[email protected]=
    le.com]
    Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 4:51 PM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: Terrain and project units

    If my terrain is in meters, is it possible to use US Customary units for th=
    e project? or does the terrain z data need to be converted to feet before t=
    errain creation?

    Thanks,
    Chris
    ________________________________
    If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion be=
    low:
    http://hec-ras-help.1091112.n5.nabble.com/Terrain-and-project-units-tp3029.=
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    Chris,

    The terrain model needs to have the spatia=
    l projection defined to, or needs to be projected to, the RAS project spati=
    al projection.

    Doing so will not affect the values of the=
    terrain raster cells (i.e. the elevations), so these will remain in meters=
    .

    If US Customary units are desired througho=
    ut the RAS project, the elevations/values of the terrain raster with metric=
    elevations should be converted to feet.

     

    From: RasL Daz=
    L [via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:ml-node+[email protected]]

    Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 4:51 PM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: Terrain and project units

     

    If my terrain is in m=
    eters, is it possible to use US Customary units for the project? or does th=
    e terrain z data need to be converted to feet before terrain creation?

    Thanks,
    Chris

    If you reply to this ema=
    il, your message will be added to the discussion below:

    http://hec=
    -ras-help.1091112.n5.nabble.com/Terrain-and-project-units-tp3029.html

    ml-node+s109=
    [email protected]

    To unsubscribe from HEC-RAS Help,
    click here    .
    NAML


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    February 23, 2015 at 5:28 pm in reply to: HEC-RAS Error – Incomplete data #9141
    markwood
    Participant

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    From: “Markwood, David”
    To: “UmarJamil [via HEC-RAS Help]”
    Subject: RE: HEC-RAS Error – Incomplete data
    Thread-Topic: HEC-RAS Error – Incomplete data
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    Umar,

    The errors appear to indicate that Manning’s n values, and Reach Lengths, h=
    ave not been specified for the XS’s

    [cid:[email protected]]

    Let me know if this isn’t helpful.

    David

    From: UmarJamil [via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:[email protected]=
    le.com]
    Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 4:00 AM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: HEC-RAS Error – Incomplete data

    Dear all I am new user of Hac Ras 4.1.
    I prepared the data in ArcGIS 10.1using Hac GeoRas toolbar (river channel, =
    river bank, cross sections etc.). After preparation of data I exported the =
    data in Hac ras 4.1 and want to generate flow of 160000 cusec.
    After giving the flow to the model, when I run the model an error is genera=
    ted for all cross section stations. Which is as below. Please tell me how=
    can I remove these type of errors.
    ERROR:
    HEC-RAS Error – Incomplete data, the following errors were found:
    River: “Suwan River” Reach: “Lower Reach” RS:19937.41
    – No Manning’s n data or friction heights k set.
    – Main channel length is less than or equal to zero, HEC-RAS requires =
    a positive reach length.

    ________________________________
    If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion be=
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    348.html
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    Umar,

     

    The errors appear to indicate=
    that Manning’s n values, and Reach Lengths, have not been specified =
    for the XS’s

     

     

    Let me know if this isn&#8217=
    ;t helpful.

     

    David

     

     

    From: UmarJami=
    l [via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:ml-node+[email protected]]

    Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 4:00 AM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: HEC-RAS Error – Incomplete data

     

    Dear all I am new use=
    r of Hac Ras 4.1.

    I prepared the data in ArcGIS 10.1using Hac GeoRas toolbar (river channel, =
    river bank, cross sections etc.). After preparation of data I exported the =
    data in Hac ras 4.1 and want to generate flow of 160000 cusec.

    After giving the flow to the model, when I run the model an error is genera=
    ted for all cross section stations. Which is as below.   Please tell m=
    e how can I remove these type of errors.

    ERROR:
    HEC-RAS Error – Incomplete data, the following errors were found:
    River: "Suwan River"   Reach: "Lower Reach"  =
    RS:19937.41                  =

         – No Manning’s n data or friction heights k set.
         – Main channel length is less than or equal to zero, HE=
    C-RAS requires a positive reach length.

    If you reply to this ema=
    il, your message will be added to the discussion below:

    http:/=
    /hec-ras-help.1091112.n5.nabble.com/HEC-RAS-Error-Incomplete-data-tp1348.ht=
    ml

    ml-node+s109=
    [email protected]

    To unsubscribe from HEC-RAS Help,
    click here    .
    NAML

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    February 22, 2015 at 12:05 am in reply to: Single Stream/Stead Flow Culvert #9139
    markwood
    Participant

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    From: “Markwood, David”
    To: “Andy [via HEC-RAS Help]”
    Subject: RE: Single Stream/Stead Flow Culvert
    Thread-Topic: Single Stream/Stead Flow Culvert
    Thread-Index: AQHQTev6I/W0cRZ3TEqbmeO+GZqYKZz7hs6w
    Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 20:05:08 +0000
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    Andy,

    It looks like the XS’s are in reverse. That is, RS 544.46 is the first XS i=
    n the model (or intended to be), yet it has the most-upstream River Station=
    .
    Let me know if that isn’t helpful.

    From: Andy [via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:[email protected]=
    m]
    Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 10:35 AM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: Single Stream/Stead Flow Culvert

    Its been awhile since I have modeled with HEC-RAS and have previously done =
    simple single stream models and I am struggling with a seemingly easy model=
    .

    I have an existing stream channel of approximately 500 feet with an existin=
    g culvert around 400 feet down stream.

    I feel like I have the model set up correctly but it gives an obviously inc=
    orrect result showing the stream over topping my roadway bu 7-8 feet even u=
    nder small 1-years (which we know is not happening in the field).

    I have attached the project file – can anyone point me in the right direct=
    ion?

    Thanks in advance!

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3y4n96pb96icw4z/ReichesFordRoad_E.p01.zip?dl=3D0
    ________________________________
    If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion be=
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    Andy,

     

    It looks like the XS’s =
    are in reverse. That is, RS 544.46 is the first XS in the model (or intende=
    d to be), yet it has the most-upstream River Station.

    Let me know if that isn&#8217=
    ;t helpful.

     

     

    From: Andy [vi=
    a HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:ml-node+[email protected]]

    Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 10:35 AM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: Single Stream/Stead Flow Culvert

     

    Its been awhile since=
    I have modeled with HEC-RAS and have previously done simple single stream =
    models and I am struggling with a seemingly easy model.

    I have an existing stream channel of approximately 500 feet with an existin=
    g culvert around 400 feet down stream.

    I feel like I have the model set up correctly but it gives an obviously inc=
    orrect result showing the stream over topping my roadway bu 7-8 feet even u=
    nder small 1-years (which we know is not happening in the field).

    I have attached the project file  – can anyone point me in the right d=
    irection?

    Thanks in advance!

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3y4n96pb96icw4z/Reich=
    esFordRoad_E.p01.zip?dl=3D0

    If you reply to this ema=
    il, your message will be added to the discussion below:

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    February 19, 2015 at 6:16 pm in reply to: Modeling Storage behind a culvert #9127
    markwood
    Participant

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    From: “Markwood, David”
    To: “pmur3774 [via HEC-RAS Help]”
    Subject: RE: Modeling Storage behind a culvert
    Thread-Topic: Modeling Storage behind a culvert
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    If I understand correctly, running a steady simulation (elevations computed=
    from downstream to upstream), I believe you need to use the HMS outflows a=
    t both the downstream and upstream face of the culvert, so that the culvert=
    experiences a single discharge.

    Should also be noted, if tailwater affects the performance of the outflow, =
    you may need to iterate between RAS and HMS using outflow curves in HMS for=
    the structure applying rating curves from RAS that capture the hydraulics/=
    tailwater downstream of the culvert, until elevations (and discharges) matc=
    hup between the two.

    From: pmur3774 [via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:[email protected]=
    e.com]
    Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:02 AM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: Modeling Storage behind a culvert

    I’m having a problem I hope someone can point me in the right direction. I=
    am trying to model a detention basin in steady flow (unsteady is really no=
    t feasible due to steep stream gradient). I ran the basin in HMS and recei=
    ved the peak inflow/outflow values. I then inserted the outflows into the =
    RAS model at the cross section
    immediately downstream of the culvert outlet of the basin. When I ran the =
    model I get results that do not match the inserted outflows. For example, =
    at the 2yr event, the peak inflow to the basin is 78 cfs and the outflow fr=
    om HMS is 65 cfs. The output in RAS shows the downstream flow to be 0.5 cf=
    s. When I do not reduce the outflow and re-run the model the flows are the=
    same (78 in and 78 out). This problem is similar
    when I run all the frequency flows. The output flows do not match the stea=
    dy flow inserted values.

    Anyone run into this,or does someone have an answer as to how to fix this?

    Thanks in advance.

    ________________________________
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    If I understand correctly, ru=
    nning a steady simulation (elevations computed from downstream to upstream)=
    , I believe you need to use the HMS outflows at both the
    downstream and upstream face of the culvert, so that the culvert experienc=
    es a single discharge.

     

    Should also be noted, if tail=
    water affects the performance of the outflow, you may need to iterate betwe=
    en RAS and HMS using outflow curves in HMS for the structure
    applying rating curves from RAS that capture the hydraulics/tailwater down=
    stream of the culvert, until elevations (and discharges) matchup between th=
    e two.

     

     

    From: pmur3774=
    [via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:ml-node+[email protected]]

    Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:02 AM
    To: Markwood, David
    Subject: Modeling Storage behind a culvert

     

    I’m having a problem =
    I hope someone can point me in the right direction.  I am trying to mo=
    del a detention basin in steady flow (unsteady is really not feasible due t=
    o steep stream gradient).  I ran the basin
    in HMS and received the peak inflow/outflow values.  I then inserted =
    the outflows into the RAS model at the cross section

    immediately downstream of the culvert outlet of the basin.  When I ran=
    the model I get results that do not match the inserted outflows.  For=
    example, at the 2yr event, the peak inflow to the basin is 78 cfs and the =
    outflow from HMS is 65 cfs.  The output in
    RAS shows the downstream flow to be 0.5 cfs.  When I do not reduce th=
    e outflow and re-run the model the flows are the same (78 in and 78 out). &=
    nbsp;This problem is similar

    when I run all the frequency flows.  The output flows do not match the=
    steady flow inserted values.

    Anyone run into this,or does someone have an answer as to how to fix this? =

    Thanks in advance.

    If you reply to this ema=
    il, your message will be added to the discussion below:

    ht=
    tp://hec-ras-help.1091112.n5.nabble.com/Modeling-Storage-behind-a-culvert-t=
    p1327.html

    ml-node+s109=
    [email protected]

    To unsubscribe from HEC-RAS Help,
    click here    .
    NAML

    This e-m=
    ail and any attachments contain AECOM confidential information that may be =
    proprietary or privileged. If you receive this message in error or are not =
    the intended recipient, you should
    not retain, distribute, disclose or use any of this information and you sh=
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