Lateral Stucture Split Flow Optimization Failure

[CPDPEC]

I am relatively new to HEC-RAS.

I am working on a residential development that partially lies within a floodplain. I was given the 100-yr flowrate for the main floodway channel by local FP authorities. The ultimate goal of this exercise is to ensure imported fill is not raising the 100-yr WSEL. The proposed grading creates a ridgeline which divides the FP at the top. I am trying to model the ridge as a lateral structure letting water from the main channel overflow into the side channel which eventually ties back in to the main floodway at the bottom of the FP. I have created the lateral structure and directed the overflow to my side channel reach. When I run a steady state flow the lateral split flow optimization fails to converge. Checking the details of the structure shows it passes more water than was entered into the system and flows the wrong direction. If I discharge the weir flows out of the system I receive no errors, however, the weir flows seem high. I have searched the manuals and forums and I think my weir is set up correctly therefore I am not sure where my error is. I have provided a link to my project folder as well as a plan view of the project. All comments/suggestions related to this project are welcomed. Thank you in advance.

http://www.dropbox.com/sh/c6rfp7zxcpffvss/AAAN2_EPBhldaRb-q788SNNNa?dl=0

[cameron]

a few things I noticed,

1. XS 90883.06 does not appear to be in the correct location in plan view. As I scrolled through past this cross-section it jumped (skipped) multiple cross-sections.
2. There should probably be some ineffective flow areas added to the model, the locations I noticed were around 71602. This will help increase the water surface elevation which should also help stabilize it.
3. you should add weir stationing at HW cross-sections in the lateral structure options as the locations where the cross-sections intersect the lateral structure should be based on actual location and not the reach length.
4. A better initial guess for the split flow in the flow options might help
5. The last thing you could try is to run the model in unsteady mode with a constant hydrograph. This is more stable sometimes and also has the option of adjusting stability coefficients to make it more stable if needed.

[CPDPEC]

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From: Craig Dalton
To: “cameron [via HEC-RAS Help]”
Subject: RE: Lateral Stucture Split Flow Optimization Failure
Thread-Topic: Lateral Stucture Split Flow Optimization Failure
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Thanks for your response Cameron.

I removed the erroneous cross-section and adjusted my weir structure statio=
ning to reflect its actual profile. I changed my distribution of the weir =
flows to “over multiple xs” and entered in the weir station intersections f=
or the side channel cross-sections. When I attempt to run the steady flow =
analysis with the lateral flow optimization turned on the program begins th=
e calculations but then stalls. It produces no errors and I am forced to h=
it the stop button to terminate the computation. I have read that during a=
steady flow analysis the program will typically hang up on the cross-secti=
on of error (i.e. bridge/culverts sections) however in my case it is the ve=
ry first cross-section with fairly simple geometry. I attempted to input a=
n unsteady flow as you mentioned but it produced similar results with the p=
rogram locking up mid-calculation. The program runs with flow optimization=
turned off but this doesn’t allow the flow of water between the reaches. =
Any suggestions? I have posted a link to the project folder. Thank you.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ju0qnt0x4ppibal/AACc0pHceARQPCtWBGw889Lka?dl=3D0

Craig Dalton, P.E.
[email protected]
(406) 459-8456

[PEC LOGO-page1]
2101 Overland Ave * Billings, MT 59102
http://www.performance-ec.com<http://www.performance-ec.com>

This message is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain=
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us checks before opening an attachment. Thank you for your cooperation.

From: cameron [via HEC-RAS Help] [mailto:[email protected]=
.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2015 9:51 PM
To: Craig Dalton
Subject: Re: Lateral Stucture Split Flow Optimization Failure

a few things I noticed,

1. XS 90883.06 does not appear to be in the correct location in plan view. =
As I scrolled through past this cross-section it jumped (skipped) multiple=
cross-sections.
2. There should probably be some ineffective flow areas added to the model=
, the locations I noticed were around 71602. This will help increase the w=
ater surface elevation which should also help stabilize it.
3. you should add weir stationing at HW cross-sections in the lateral stru=
cture options as the locations where the cross-sections intersect the later=
al structure should be based on actual location and not the reach length.
4. A better initial guess for the split flow in the flow options might help
5. The last thing you could try is to run the model in unsteady mode with a=
constant hydrograph. This is more stable sometimes and also has the optio=
n of adjusting stability coefficients to make it more stable if needed.
________________________________
If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion be=
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Thanks for your response Cameron.

 

I removed the erroneous cross-section=
and adjusted my weir structure stationing to reflect its actual profile.&n=
bsp; I changed my distribution of the weir flows to
“over multiple xs” and entered in the weir station intersectio=
ns for the side channel cross-sections.  When I attempt to run the ste=
ady flow analysis with the lateral flow optimization turned on the program =
begins the calculations but then stalls.  It produces
no errors and I am forced to hit the stop button to terminate the computat=
ion.  I have read that during a steady flow analysis the program will =
typically hang up on the cross-section of error (i.e. bridge/culverts secti=
ons) however in my case it is the very
first cross-section with fairly simple geometry.  I attempted to inpu=
t an unsteady flow as you mentioned but it produced similar results with th=
e program locking up mid-calculation.  The program runs with flow opti=
mization turned off but this doesn’t allow
the flow of water between the reaches.  Any suggestions?  I have=
posted a link to the project folder.  Thank you.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/=
sh/ju0qnt0x4ppibal/AACc0pHceARQPCtWBGw889Lka?dl=3D0

 

Craig Dalton, P.E.

[email protected]

(406) 459-8456

 

2101 Overland Ave
•
Billings, MT 59102

w=
ww.performance-ec.com

 

 

 

 

This message is for the so=
le use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileg=
ed information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure
or distribution is prohibited. If you are not an intended recipient, pleas=
e contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original=
message. E-mail attachments may contain viruses which could damage your co=
mputer. While we have taken precautions
to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for such damage and you =
should carry out your own virus checks before opening an attachment. Thank =
you for your cooperation.

 

From: cameron [via HEC-RAS Help] [ma=
ilto:ml-node+[email protected]]

Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2015 9:51 PM
To: Craig Dalton
Subject: Re: Lateral Stucture Split Flow Optimization Failure

 

a few things I notice=
d,

1. XS 90883.06 does not appear to be in the correct location in plan view. =
 As I scrolled through past this cross-section it jumped (skipped) mul=
tiple cross-sections.

2.  There should probably be some ineffective flow areas added to the =
model, the locations I noticed were around 71602.  This will help incr=
ease the water surface elevation which should also help stabilize it. &nbsp=
;

3.  you should add weir stationing at HW cross-sections in the lateral=
structure options as the locations where the cross-sections intersect the =
lateral structure should be based on actual location and not the reach leng=
th.

4. A better initial guess for the split flow in the flow options might help=

5. The last thing you could try is to run the model in unsteady mode with a=
constant hydrograph.  This is more stable sometimes and also has the =
option of adjusting stability coefficients to make it more stable if needed=
.  

---

If you reply to this email, your mes=
sage will be added to the discussion below:

http://h=
ec-ras-help.1091112.n5.nabble.com/Lateral-Stucture-Split-Flow-Optimization-=
Failure-tp1278p1279.html

To unsubsc=
ribe from Lateral Stucture Split Flow Optimization Failure,
click here.
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