Welcome to the RAS Solution Forums HEC-RAS Help Instability in unsteady lateral culvert model

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  • #5394
    ross singleton
    Participant

    Hi All,

    I am in need of some advice or guidance on a model I am struggling to stabilise.

    The models aim is to size the ponds and culverts that are used for balancing the storm volumes due to the flow restriction at the culvert crossing the river;

    I think I have tried everything suggested in the articles and other posts but cant seem to get the lateral culverts to stabilise as the hydro-graph begins to rise.

    I have to reduce my m exponent to 2 to eliminate any instabilities

    My hydro-graph is in 5 minute increments and my comp. interval I have tried down to 30 seconds but 5mins seems to work best.

    Any experience with solving these sort of problems would be very helpfull.

    Thanks,

    Ross


    #8630
    Hydrojock
    Participant

    Ross,

    A couple of quick thoughts:
    1) do you have an initial water surface elevation defined in the storage areas?
    2) the profile plot you provided shows the culverts are quite submerged. at the start of the simulation, is the water surface below the invert of the culverts? if it is already above the invert of the culverts for the first time step, the model might be having difficulty coming up with a valid starting solution. best to start below the culvert invert and gradually bring it up.
    3) presumably you’ve checked the obvious things like the Cd for the culverts, geometry integrity (elevations for all connections make sense), etc…

    #8631
    ross singleton
    Participant

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    From: Ross Singleton
    To: “Hydrojock [via HEC-RAS Bloggery Forum]”

    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:58:29 +0200
    Subject: RE: Instability in unsteady lateral culvert model
    Thread-Topic: Instability in unsteady lateral culvert model
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    Hi James,

    Thanks for your reply,

    The problem was actually lying in the storage connection. I had mis-typed t=
    he mannings by a factor of 10. Once I corrected it the instabilities were g=
    one and I was able to bring my inertial terms back in up to 10. (and get a =
    better culvert size for that connection)

    Cheers,

    Ross

    From: Hydrojock [via HEC-RAS Bloggery Forum] [mailto:ml-node+s1091112n434h3=
    [email protected]]
    Sent: 29 October 2013 19:39
    To: Ross Singleton
    Subject: Re: Instability in unsteady lateral culvert model

    Ross,

    A couple of quick thoughts:
    1) do you have an initial water surface elevation defined in the storage a=
    reas?
    2) the profile plot you provided shows the culverts are quite submerged. =
    at the start of the simulation, is the water surface below the invert of th=
    e culverts? if it is already above the invert of the culverts for the firs=
    t time step, the model might be having difficulty coming up with a valid st=
    arting solution. best to start below the culvert invert and gradually brin=
    g it up.
    3) presumably you’ve checked the obvious things like the Cd for the culver=
    ts, geometry integrity (elevations for all connections make sense), etc…
    Regards,
    James

    Every 15 seconds a child dies of a
    disease caused by unsafe water.

    Find out what you can do about it
    http://www.Lifewater.org<http://www.Lifewater.org>

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    Hi James,=

     <= /p>

    Thanks for your reply,

    =

     

    The problem was actually lying in the storage connection. I had mi=
    s-typed the mannings by a factor of 10. Once I corrected it the instabiliti=
    es were gone and I was able to bring my inertial terms back in up to 10. (a=
    nd get a better culvert size for that connection)

     

    Cheers,

     

    Ross

     

    <= span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri= f"'>From: Hydrojock [via HEC-RAS Bloggery Forum] [mailto:ml=
    [email protected]]
    Sent: 29 October 2013 19:39=

    To: Ross Singleton
    Subject: Re: Instability in unstead=
    y lateral culvert model

    &nbs=
    p;

    Ross,

    A couple of quick thoughts: =

    1)  do you have an initial water surface elevation defined in the =
    storage areas?
    2)  the profile plot you provided shows the culvert=
    s are quite submerged.  at the start of the simulation, is the water s=
    urface below the invert of the culverts?  if it is already above the i=
    nvert of the culverts for the first time step, the model might be having di=
    fficulty coming up with a valid starting solution.  best to start belo=
    w the culvert invert and gradually bring it up.
    3)  presumably you=
    ‘ve checked the obvious things like the Cd for the culverts, geometry integ=
    rity (elevations for all connections make sense), etc…

    Regards,
    James
    Every 15 seconds a child dies of a
    disease caused by unsafe water.=

    Find out what you can do about it
    http://www.Lifewater.org

     


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