FLOW INCREASE DOWNSTREAM

[Thalweg]

I have a 1936 cross section and a 2007 cross section for a river. The river geometry has changed over time as well as vegetation (manning n). I want to see how a hydrograph will change over time. There is a USGS gage and I am using a flood with RI of 2 years.

The reach length is 132000 feet (25 miles). I have 20 cross sections, each 6000 feet apart.
Which is my first question – is this too far apart?
When you enter downstream stream lengths in the Cross Section Geometry should I enter 6000 or 132000?

I have an input hydrograph –
And downstream condition = normal depth (slope river = 0.0021)

I ran the unsteady flow. The upstream reach looked ok, but downstream WOW there was a 10 fold increase in discharge? How is this possible, I did not put in any tributaries.

What am I doing wrong? thanks

[Anonymous]

Your model seems to be showing some evidence of non-convergence. RAS reports the convergence errors at each cross section as it is doing the simulation. That info is useful in diagnosing computational problems. Appears that your reach is subcrictical, so perhaps the computational time step should be looked at. The distance between cross sections is between individual sections.

[Thalweg]

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Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 21:52:16 -0400
Message-ID:
Subject: Re: FLOW INCREASE DOWNSTREAM
From: “Gellis, Allen”
To: “MichaelG [via HEC-RAS Help]”
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thanks for the help

Ok I was able to get a hydrograph, using a spacing of 650 feet with 10
cross sections.

Do you think I should use the option
“Monitor this hydrograph for adjustments to computational time step” in
the Boundary Conditions Flow Hydrograph?

I tried it with a Max change in flow of 10cfs and it shows discharge
increasing downstream. So maybe this button should not be pressed?

?

On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 10:59 AM, MichaelG [via HEC-RAS Help] < [email protected]> wrote:

> Your model seems to be showing some evidence of non-convergence. RAS
> reports the convergence errors at each cross section as it is doing the
> simulation. That info is useful in diagnosing computational problems.
> Appears that your reach is subcrictical, so perhaps the computational tim=
e
> step should be looked at. The distance between cross sections is between
> individual sections.
>
> ——————————
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
>
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thanks for the help

Ok I was able to ge=
t a hydrograph, using a spacing of 650 feet with 10 cross sections.

Do you think =C2=A0I should use the option

"Moni=
tor this hydrograph for adjustments to computational time step" in=C2=
=A0

the Boundary Conditions Flow Hydrograph?

=

I tried it with a Max change in flow of 10cfs and it shows discharge i=
ncreasing downstream.=C2=A0 So maybe this button should not be pressed?

?

On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 10:59 AM, MichaelG [via HEC-=
RAS Help] <[email protected]=
> wrote:

0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Your model seems to be showing some evidence of non-convergence. RAS repor=
ts the convergence errors at each cross section as it is doing the simulati=
on. That info is useful in diagnosing computational problems. Appears that =
your reach is subcrictical, so perhaps the computational time step should b=
e looked at. The distance between cross sections is between individual sect=
ions.

=09
=09
=09

---

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=09
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[Anonymous]

That is probably not a solution to the stability problems that you are seeing. Are your time steps and distance steps close to the Courant condition? And, are you seeing any reports from RAS about covergence during the computations? These reports should indicate where the computational problem starts and help with the diagosis. Would like to look at your RAS files.

[Thalweg]

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<[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 11:14:05 -0400
Message-ID:
Subject: Re: FLOW INCREASE DOWNSTREAM
From: “Gellis, Allen”
To: “MichaelG [via HEC-RAS Help]”
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Wow thank you for your offer, that is tremendous.

Can you tell me which files and extensions you need?

thanks
Allen

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 10:55 AM, MichaelG [via HEC-RAS Help] < [email protected]> wrote:

> That is probably not a solution to the stability problems that you are
> seeing. Are your time steps and distance steps close to the Courant
> condition? And, are you seeing any reports from RAS about covergence duri=
ng
> the computations? These reports should indicate where the computational
> problem starts and help with the diagosis. Would like to look at your RAS
> files.
>
>
> ——————————
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
>
> http://hec-ras-help.1091112.n5.nabble.com/FLOW-INCREASE-DOWNSTREAM-tp1612=
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Wow thank you for your offer, that is tremendous.

=

Can you tell me which files and extensions you need?

<= br>

thanks

Allen=C2=A0

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 10:55 AM, M=
ichaelG [via HEC-RAS Help] <ml-node+s1091112n1620h91@=
n5.nabble.com> wrote:

yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

That is probably not a solution to the stability problems that you are see=
ing. Are your time steps and distance steps close to the Courant condition?=
And, are you seeing any reports from RAS about covergence during the compu=
tations? These reports should indicate where the computational problem star=
ts and help with the diagosis. Would like to look at your RAS files.

=09
=09
=09

---

If you reply to this email, your message =
will be added to the discussion below:

http://hec-ras-help.1091112.n5.nab=
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[Anonymous]

The necessary RAS files can be exported by going to the main screen > File > Debug Report. This makes a zip file of the current RAS plan. Stability requirements are detailed in Chap. 8 of the User’s Manual.
Hope this helps,
Michael

[Thalweg]

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<[email protected]>

<[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 14:44:24 -0400
Message-ID:
Subject: Re: FLOW INCREASE DOWNSTREAM
From: “Gellis, Allen”
To: “MichaelG [via HEC-RAS Help]”
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thanks
I am sending 2 zip files.

One is the 1936 channel cross section. In 1936 the channel was devoid of
vegetation, I gave it a mannings n of 0.02.
I was able to get a hydrograph from this idata. The bed slope is 0.0021.
I put in xs distance of 650 feet, for 10 cross sections.
The distance was based on the formula, Samuel’s equation DelX<0.15D/S0
where D=3Daverage bank full depth (ft) and S0 is the average bed slope in
ft/ft.

The other zip file is the 2007 channel. Much more vegetation, i gave it a
manning's n of 0.2 and distributed it through the xs.
I could not get a decent hydrograph with this data.

My goal is to see how channel geometry and increased n, influence the
hydrograph.

Thanks

Allen

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 12:28 PM, MichaelG [via HEC-RAS Help] < [email protected]> wrote:

> The necessary RAS files can be exported by going to the main screen > Fil=
e
> > Debug Report. This makes a zip file of the current RAS plan. Stability
> requirements are detailed in Chap. 8 of the User’s Manual.
> Hope this helps,
> Michael
>
> ——————————
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
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thanks

I am sending 2 zip files.

<= div>One is the 1936 channel cross section.=C2=A0 In 1936 the channel was de=
void of vegetation, I gave it a mannings n of 0.02.

I was able to=
get a hydrograph from this idata.=C2=A0 The bed slope is 0.0021.=C2=A0 I p=
ut in xs distance of 650 feet, for 10 cross sections.

The distanc=
e was based on the formula,=C2=A0Samuel's equation =C2=A0 DelX<0.15D/S0 where D=3Daverage bank ful=
l depth (ft) and S0 is the average bed slope in ft/ft.

The other zip file is the 2007 channel.=C2=A0 Much more vegetat=
ion, i gave it a manning's n of 0.2 and distributed it through the xs.<= /div>

I could not get a decent hydrograph with this data.

My goal is to see how channel geometry and increased n, influen=
ce the hydrograph.

T=
hanks

Allen

=

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 12:28 PM, MichaelG [v=
ia HEC-RAS Help] <[email protected].=
com> wrote:

gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

The necessary RAS files can be exported by going to the main screen > F=
ile > Debug Report. This makes a zip file of the current RAS plan. Stabi=
lity requirements are detailed in Chap. 8 of the User's Manual.

Hope this helps,

Michael

=09
=09
=09

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